Glen sits down with Ryan Jones, Marketing Manager at SEOTesting.com, to unpack how experimentation shapes modern SEO.
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- Why testing matters more than ever in SEO
- How AI search and LLMs are reshaping discovery
- Building a testing culture inside SaaS and small teams
- The balance between brand and acquisition
- Lessons from running marketing for a bootstrapped SaaS
00:00:00 Introduction – Beyond SEO with Growthack.io
00:00:18 Guest Intro – Ryan Jones from SEOTesting.com
00:01:39 The Power of Testing in SEO
00:05:23 Why Most Businesses Avoid Experimentation
00:06:45 How AI Search Is Changing the Game
00:08:44 When and How to Test Campaigns Effectively
00:10:44 Building a Testing Culture in Marketing
00:11:56 Managing Time and Focus in Small SaaS Teams
00:18:33 SaaS Onboarding and Retention Strategies
00:18:43 Understanding the SaaS vs E-commerce Difference
00:31:03 Personal Branding vs Company Branding in SaaS
00:37:05 Word-of-Mouth as a Marketing Channel
00:38:52 Brand vs Acquisition – Which Should You Prioritise?
00:41:00 Lessons for Start-ups and Resource Management
00:44:53 Core Values at SEOTesting.com
00:51:44 Biggest Lessons from SaaS Marketing
00:55:11 Closing Thoughts and Where to Connect
Why Testing Matters More Than Ever
One of the most prominent themes in this episode is that SEO is now less about certainty and more about learning velocity. Ryan explains that
“every site is a little ecosystem, what works for one might not work for another.”
That mindset shift, from tactics to testing, is what separates sustainable growth from reactive optimisation. As Glen notes in the discussion,
“it’s not about finding hacks; it’s about building systems to understand what works for your audience and why.”
AI Search and the New Discovery Landscape
The conversation quickly moves into how AI search and large language models (LLMs) are reshaping how people discover brands. Ryan highlights that visibility is no longer confined to traditional search results.
“It’s about being the source that LLMs trust. Testing content formats, data markup, and user intent signals now plays a much bigger role.”
Glen adds that this shift rewards brands that invest in structured data, brand authority, and genuine expertise — not those chasing algorithm updates. In other words, experimentation is now the bridge between SEO, AI and brand strategy.
Building a Testing Culture in SaaS
Running marketing for a bootstrapped SaaS, Ryan gives a candid look at how small teams can still prioritise experimentation. He explains:
“It’s not about running hundreds of tests; it’s about making every test teach you something you can apply across the business.”
He outlines how SEOTesting.com uses data from its own platform to drive decisions — from onboarding improvements to retention and feature marketing. The lesson is clear: when teams use testing as a feedback loop, every campaign becomes a learning opportunity, not just a metric to report.
Brand vs Acquisition: Finding the Balance
Another key insight from this episode is the tension between brand and acquisition. Ryan points out that
“you can’t build brand trust without delivering consistent experiences and testing helps you align both.”
Whether it’s optimising sign-up flows or refining messaging, the conversation reminds us that brand is an output of repeated, validated learning. For SaaS marketers, this means treating every campaign as an experiment that strengthens your position, not just your pipeline.
Lessons for Marketers and Founders
- Adopt a scientific mindset — test, learn, repeat.
- Track experiments as assets, not just performance metrics.
- Invest in structured data and first-party insights for the AI era.
- Build cross-functional feedback loops between marketing, product and data.
- View brand as a compound effect of consistent experimentation.
Ryan sums it up perfectly:
“SEO is just one part of how people find you, testing is how you stay relevant when everything else changes.”
Listen to the Full Episode
You can listen to the full episode on Spotify or watch it on YouTube as part of the Beyond SEO series.
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